Only ‘Ellen’s’ label remains a puzzle, indeed there appears to be no-that called Ellen otherwise Helen, but perhaps a keen ‘Eleanor’ on Joanna’s top (Eleanor of Aquitaine, mother away from Joanna’s father Queen John)
Hey, men. It is its interesting; the thing i won’t keeps given to gain access to this short article twenty-5 years ago once i is evaluating and you will writing Right here Feel Dragons!
An important purpose of this exercise is to try, by a glance at genealogist’s views about them and by consulting some recognized brand spanking new supplies, to choose who had been the mother regarding Gwladus Ddu ferch Llywelyn. Is actually she Joanna, wife from Llywelyn ab Iorwerth (Joan Plantagenet: Produced circa.1188, died. March 1237) otherwise is actually she Tangwystl ferch Llyarch regarding Rhos, mistress out of Llywelyn, born circa. 1168, passed away??
I shall follow this with a vacation studies into the you are able to lifestyle of a ded Susanna, provided out over Queen Henry 111 since a hostage within the 1228 with her custody becoming provided to help you Sir Nicholas Verdun and his partner Clementia.
New opinions of your own Genealogists that i provides studied are just you to, opinions, in addition they disagree significantly. No particular research is present in any event, but i have to state that the vast majority of hold to have Gwladus as the new daughter out of Joanna. https://brightwomen.net/tr/urdunlu-kadin/ This is especially true of your own genealogists of your own descendants off new De- Braose nearest and dearest, even so they ily to get linked with both the Welsh and you can English royal house!
The ensuing list of Llywelyn’s multiple genuine and you can illegitimate students looks to-be fundamentally approved of the every genealogists that we keeps learnt except for differences more whether or not #9 very stayed. The fresh times out of birth here are also disputed by the some:
- Gruffudd ap Llywelyn, created circa.1199, died 1244
- Gwladys Ddu ferch Llywelyn, born circa.1206, died 1251
- Ellen (Helen, Elen) ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1206? passed away circa 1253,
- Margred (Margaret) ferch Llywelyn, created circa 1208? died circa 1263,
- Dafydd ap Llywelyn, Prince from Wales, produced circa 1208 (1211?) (second thoughts about this big date, look for after), died twenty five March 1246,
- Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1209 passed away 1281.
- Angharad ferch Llywelyn, born circa 1210, died 1257
- Tegwared ap Llywelyn – produced circa 1210, it is possible to twin so you can Angharad?
- ‘Helen’, otherwise ‘Susanna’, created circa 1214? Passed away 1259?
Discover much conflict along the title of one’s moms and dads regarding these people. There can be standard contract your merely certain people away from Llywelyn’s age Prince away from Wales and you may Ellen (Helen) just who partnered (1) John the newest Scot, young buck of your own earl of Chester and you may (2) Robert de- Quincy. Although opinion is actually split up along the mothers from Gwladus, Gwenllian, Margred and you may Susanna, a lot of the genealogists I have analyzed lean into the mom getting Joanna.
That is partly making use of their heading times of delivery just like the well as their marriage ceremonies to several marcher lords who, that supposes, would have found so you’re able to align their houses compared to that of its neighbor, this new Prince out of Northern Wales and his partner, the newest queen out of England’s daughter. It is believed these types of lords of your February wouldn’t have seen plenty notice or political determination when you look at the marrying off their sons towards illegitimate daughters from a beneficial Welsh prince with an excellent Welsh woman.
As to what labels of them college students, if or not because of the Joanna, Tangwystl otherwise someone else, they certainly were all entitled immediately after members of Llywelyn’s relatives:
Ken, we are totally on your own debt
Llywelyn’s mother is called ‘ed ‘Susanna’ out of Gwynedd. His paternal granny is actually entitled ‘Gwladus’. The mother and father off their grandma Susanna, was ‘Gruffudd’ ap Cynan and ‘Angharad’ regarding Flint and you may both the brands got so you can Llywelyn’s youngsters. So it Susanna along with got a cousin named ‘Gwenllian’, an identical identity while the Llywelyn’s great grandmother.